Putting things in places they ought not to be (250R Hybrid Motor build)

[Dirtcrasher]

Hey Billy, I just picked up a Miller 180 Diversion Welder and a book called "Tig welding for dummies"; Which is a pretty summation of what most people need. They had a 10% off promotion which let me get a cart, 6 different 3' lengths of rod and an expensive "Blue Flame helmet". Gloves and sleeves too! It was a fantastic deal and it's use will pay for it. I grabbed the size 80 bottle as well, so no rental fees and it came already filled for a nice cost!

However, as you stated yourself, I just cannot bring myself into the shop just yet. We have been bombarded with snow and very cold temperatures at night. I do however, look forward to getting real good at this. Such as repairing 250R left cases. I want a weld looking like a layer of rolled out dimes We'll see what I can do and I am a member of Boston local 17 SMW which has a course on TIG welding if they can get 20 guys to sign up; It's free!

My suggestion to all of you; Take advantage of ANY and ALL courses offered at technical schools and it may just save your home from foreclosure someday. The older guys are disappearing so we need to fill that void.....

[Billy Golightly]

I think in another 10 or 15 years, people in skilled labor jobs like welding, machining, carpenters, etc are going to be in higher demand than programmers and IT people were in the early 90s...thats my prediction.

[oscarmayer]

^ quack smoker! (stay away from duck ponds. Just because it is white and chalky does not mean it is cocaine. :P )

[Billy Golightly]

Here is an update - I used the tool and re-surfaced the top of the cases, I *was* off on my side to side angle quite abit...I'm glad I did it. Using that and my Edge Technologies tramming tool, I got within .0005 of the crank journal, which is plenty good enough.

I also put 2 heli-coils in the exhaust side cylinder bolt holes since those seemed to be already be feeling a little crunchy from all the in and out. Nice and smooth now.

Re-assembled and found a couple other air leaks. One is where my exhaust flange goes on (in real world application, not as important). and also a little bit in the center cases in one spot where I had welded, that I hadn't detected before (probably because of the base gasket area bleeding off enough to not notice down there). I still had assembled this with dry gaskets on the base and the center case.

So I broke it back down, used a very light coat of blue silicone with my finger on the problematic surface (I know, I know, everyone hates on RTV, but if you use it right, it really is useful stuff). Re-assembled, and got it to hold better. Still not exactly where I want to be, it holds within the 7-5 psi range for about 3 minutes, but not quite good enough yet. Need to investigate the center case area its leaking at a bit more.

Also, how many are familiar with that seal collar that goes in the crank seal on the transmission side? I have a theory on that I'd like to share.

[jays375]

Neat project for sure.Are you using a real leak detechtor?I use it at work all the time and it can find the smallest leak.
Hope you are right about the future Billy.Would be nice to be appreciated for a skill you have.Right now everybody wants cheap help.Rather try out 20 fresh guys than a seasoned pro.

[Billy Golightly]

No, no dye setup...jsut good old fashioned air pressure and soap. I have a radiator cap tester I had a custom hydraulic hose made for with a 1/8in pipe swivel on it, that threads into a few different aluminum bushings for different sized intake boots. Also have a few to go in radiator lines and test a coolant system as well. It has a nice big gauge on it, its perfect for doing this kind of stuff.

A very quiet setting helps too, I seem to be able hear even the slightest amounts of air protrusion and track them down to the general area, and then use soapy water to come back and really pin point it. The rule of thumb to pass the test is hold 7psi, for 7 minutes so I'm making progress on getting there with it. Most of the leakage this last time appears to be from the exhaust flange I made, even though I sealed it, so I will have to come back and do some filing or possibly a little fly-cut job on it also.

The little dot in the center cases kind of has my attention too though, I have to look at that a bit more closely.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Also, how many are familiar with that seal collar that goes in the crank seal on the transmission side? I have a theory on that I'd like to share.

Yep. What's the theory?

[Billy Golightly]

If you install it the way the service manual shows, how do you keep air from protruding through the splines?

[bkm]

Some run an o-ring over the crank and install the sleeve. There was nothing there from the factory and they didn't leak. I don't know if it is a perfect interference fit or when the crank gear is torqued down it produces an airtight seal against the should of the crank web.

[Billy Golightly]

I actually turn my collars around "backwards" as per the service manual and parts diagram, since they have a shoulder on the inside that fits right over the end of the crank before the splines are started. Plus you have the whole flat of the back side to go up against the side of the crank webbing as well.

I half wondered if Honda intentionally did that as a trick so the factory bikes could always be faster than everyone elses, because every other one I've ever personally tested did leak there, not a lot of course, but some.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I have wondered the same thing about that collar myself. I guess I just assumed the 2-stroke oil seeping out from the crank bearing would act as a sealer there??

Kind of like piston rings on a tiny little RC nitro engine..there aren't any in many cases. They cut a fine groove in the piston where a ring/rings would be on a normal engine and fuel collects there and acts like a piston ring, sealing it up.

[Billy Golightly]

Heres another youtube video. basically me yammering away on about what I'm doing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8CHfHhdeNw

[fabiodriven]

Steve and I installed a Time Cert on a CAT 3406 recently. It was the first time I had used one but it certainly worked well.

[atc500x]

But when installed,the air can't go thru the spline if the gears are tighten with the bolt and the washer....?

[Billy Golightly]

Well that is the theory, but 7lbs of air pressure can push through a lot of different places and areas...