Cool article on the Ram "Built in the Neck" steering stabilizer.

[bkm]

The more I look at it the more I'm confused and convinced it's a pipe dream. I think if you removed the lock bolt on the side you could just push the lower tree up into the piston letting it spin until the lower tree was seated, then install the lock bolt?

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[barnett468]

So looking at this thing torn down it would seem that maybe the threaded female section is held in place only by one of the bolts in the steering tube? You would have to install the female section onto the lower triple tree before you push it into the steering head and then secure it from turning with the horizontal bolt that passes through the frame but still allow it to move up and down inside the steering head with the bars as they turn? I guessing that's how it works because it would be impossible to spin the lower tree into the inner tube as it would hit the frame.

Good news is you seem to have found someone willing to share photos. It might also help if you have some compromising photos of that machinist buddy of yours

I didn't have a chance to look at it too long but because the stem is on his lower tripple tree before it was polished, it appears as though he just took the top stuff off then undid the piston locating bolt then pulled down on the stem . . the piston should easily unthread/unscrew itself . . this is why it was still in the steering head after he removed the lower tripple tree.

the reverse process could be used to reinstall it . . just push up on the tripple tree and rotate it a little back and forth to get it to engage the splines on the piston then just push up and the piston will self thread back on . . this is not much different than installing a distributor in a car.

the seal on the top of the piston should easily rotate in the tube also so it shouldn't prevent the piston from rotating.

i think there are only two open splines in the ends of the piston so you have a 50/50 chance of installing it so the vertical locating, or anti rotation slot in the side of the piston will be on the correct side of the forks.

once the lower tree is installed, you could rotate the piston in one direction by turning the lower tree in the appropriate direction if the piston is at the bottom of the stem, or you can rotate it the other direction by pushing down on it with a screwdriver from the top if it is near the top of the stem.

...or simply email xrider again and ask him how the heck he installed it.

[barnett468]

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The more I look at it the more I'm confused and convinced it's a pipe dream. I think if you removed the lock bolt on the side you could just push the lower tree up into the piston letting it spin until the lower tree was seated, then install the lock bolt?

sorry, i didn't see your post because i was typing in the box while you made it, but my post above is my initial guess which is the same as yours.

[Billy Golightly]

I've got to really study this thing, because I always thought it was just a disc acting like a piston that rode on the helical cut splines of the stem, that had oil on either side, and it just moved up and down those splines as the bars were turned and compressed the oil either direction.


Clearly I was underthinking it

[El Camexican]

I’m going to take one more shot at this. No offence to anyone who had it figured out already, I have attention span issues, so when someone like Barnett posts a novel of facts I have trouble holding it all in my head from start to finish even though all the answers might be in it, so I need to type this out to get it clear in my mind.

Steering Head: Stock head tube is machined to accept roller bearing races higher from the bottom than normal and lower than normal at the top. Above and below both it are oil seals installed in the stem which fit into something that looks like what would have held the stock bearing races. The adjuster and jamb nut seem to be located below the oil seal at the top, so adjustment would be a little messier than normal if it is ever required.

Steering Stem: Worm gear on the exterior and hollow to at least the top of the threads with internal fine thread for the adjustment rod that is exposed on the top of the assembly. There are two (or perhaps four if they are drilled through) holes in the steering stem that act as bleeders when opened or restricted by the adjustable damper rod which threads into the piston.

Piston: Lower section threaded to suit steering stem. It has a seal at the top that fits over the stem and a void beneath the seal as well as a ring, or seal at the top. The upper bleed hole is above the seal and the lower bleed hole is inside a void in the piston located below the seal which the lower of the two bleeder holes is exposed. I would not be surprised if the piston was bolted together from two separate parts.

Inside the original steering stem there is a machined sleeve with a threaded locating hole in it that acts as a cylinder for the piston to move on. It is roughly located by the c-clip in the stock stem that you can see in one of the photos and although it is likely a little loose inside the steering head at first, the piston locating bolt holds it in position. Even if it does flex a little all that matters is that the piston is still sealing inside it. If the bolt breaks the c clip keeps the cylinder it in place so your steering doesn't lock up.

To assemble and install you would put the oil seal on the bottom of the stem, then the roller bearing and then thread the piston assembly onto the stem and set it as close to between the bleeder holes as possible, likely with a predetermined reference measurement and then slide the sleeve over the piston. Then align the slot for the locating bolt and push it up into the steering head which already has the relocated bearing race in it. The c clip at the top acts as a stop for this as it needs to be drilled while assembled when it is being manufactured. It is unlikely one unit would just bolt into another frame with the same mod.

Put the locating bolt in with a copper washer and install the upper roller bearing, adjust then install the oil seal and upper tree clamp.

Lube and install the o-rings on the damper rod and thread it into the piston. Lay the frame on its side with the oil filler oil facing up and fill with light weight oil. Turn frame upright, set damper rod to the position of least resistance and work the assembly back and forth until all the air has gone to the top chamber.

Turn the frame back on its side and top up the oil. Repeat until all air is removed. Should further damping be desired change oil to a heavier weight.

That’s my best (and final) guess. For the record I still think you’re a nut that not even a rabid squirrel would touch if you try to build one of these.


PS. I occurred to me that if it was ever patented the office might have a concept drawing with some basic information of its workings if you can get a patent # off one of the assemblies to look it up.

[barnett468]

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I have attention span issues...

Me too, that's why my posts are so short.

...when someone like Barnett posts a novel of facts...

Hey your post is longer than mine . . my post is only 10 lines . . there's more than that on the warning label for viiagra [or so I heard] . . You should be happy this isn't an oil thread....oh, wait, it does use oil...I'll be back in a minute.


. . OMG!

[El Camexican]

.


Me too, that's why my posts are so short.





Hey your post is longer than mine . . my post is only 10 lines . . there's more than that on the warning label for viiagra [or so I heard] . . You should be happy this isn't an oil thread....oh, wait, it does use oil...I'll be back in a minute.


. . OMG!

I agree, mine is longer than yours... and so was my post. Seriously, if I don't type out what's in my head so I can go back and look at it I forget what I was thinking at the onset of an epiphany and then by the time I figure out how to solve it I don't remember what the problem was. School is not a happy memory of my childhood, aside from the long rides on the short bus.

[barnett468]

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School is not a happy memory of my childhood, aside from the long rides on the short bus.

Hey…at least you have a memory . . If I remember correctly, I can’t remember what I did an hour ago.

I agree, mine is longer than yours...

That’s not what your goat told me.


. Holy crap!

[barnett468]

.
Hydraulics are fairly simple to understand once one knows the basics, and they’re not that hard to learn . . I certainly don’t know everything about hydraulics but I was changing fork damping on my, and some other peoples race bikes back in 1975, and have worked a bit with hydraulics since then.

The difficulty is, the more things you try to get them to do, like operate an automatic transmission, the more complicated it becomes . . The new concepts engineer at Kawi was working on the design for a new 4 wheel drive vehicle which I was helping him with in my spare time, and it still wasn’t finished by the time I left Kawi 3 months later.

The bulk modulus/density of a liquid, determines its compressibility . . Water is basically not compressible . . Oil is slightly compressiible because it is around 10% less dense/lighter than water, which is why it floats on water even though it is “thicker” but that’s another story . . Although oil is compressible, the amount is miniscule . . Without firing up my calculator to give specific numbers, I can at least tell you that the amount of force required to turn the bars to the stop if there were no ports in the piston and steering stem/rod, would likely be in the area of several tons.

This can actually be calculated fairly easily simply by using all the criteria/specs like, the pitch of the splines, and degree of rotation of the bars, and the length of the bars divided by 2 to get the leverage ratio, and the bulk modulus of the oil, and the diameter of the piston, and length of the cylinder on the side of the piston that it will be moved to compress the fluid.

Also, if one were to compress the oil in this system, instead of using ports to control the flow and alleviate the pressure, the amount of force required to turn the handlebars would increase the further they were rotated . . In other words, the system would act like a spring, and since there is oil on both sides of the piston, the system would act like a self centering unit which would attempt to keep the wheel straight. Most automotive systems are designed to have a small amount of self centering, however the amount of force applied by the self centering is easy to overcome due to the leverage provided by the steering box.

To eliminate this self centering and high turning effort problem [which is really hydraulic lock], one can simply drill holes in the steering stem with one below and one above the seal on the piston that are connect them using the center of the stem . . The other option would be to drill holes in the piston, however, without the holes in the rod, there would be no way to adjust the damping amount externally.

The holes in the rod and/or piston cause the unit to be velocity sensitive just like a front fork damper rod or rear shock valve are . . The faster you turn the forks, the greater resistance the unit will provide, and the resistance is adjustable thru the rod in the center of the stem.

A few ways to imagine this type of adjustment/flow regulation system, is to picture a carburetor float needle which has a tapered tip and seat or a carburetor jet needle and needle jet . . The more the needles are raised, the more flow they allow which in turn reduces resistance . . This is also the same principle as the idle fuel mix screws on an automotive carburetor.


The sites below have a lot of helpful info on different materials, chemicals and thermodynamics etc.

http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_liquids.htm

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/


As a side note, silicone, and silicone brake fluids, are more compressible than standard glycol based fluids and therefore causes a "spongy" pedal feel . . It also expands more than glycol based fluids the hotter it gets, which increases the spongy pedal or lever feel and therefore is rarely used in high perf brake systems.
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[2YELLOWZs4me]

I have one of these on my 85 250r and I've been trying to figure out how to fill it. Any guess?

[2YELLOWZs4me]

Sorry didn't read the whole post.

[bkm]

I have one of these on my 85 250r and I've been trying to figure out how to fill it. Any guess?

Pictures please. Is there anyway to fill it through the top?

[El Camexican]

As cool as an in the neck damper is, there's a reason they don't make them like this anymore and that others are trying to copy Scotts.

[Madman Racing]

Very cool article. My original 84 R I had as a teenager had a external Ram steering stabilizer much like the modern ones but without the adjustable dampening. (Found out later in life it was a painted up VW stabilizer with a fancy decal on it. Lol)but it worked very well. Had no idea they made a internal model. Good reading.

[Dirtcrasher]

For you 200X, 350X and 250R guys; I'm working with Brian Ward for bolt on and adjustable speed/stroke steering stabilizers.

One complete kit at a good cost and if you rode a trike with one, you'd love these things!!