4 more years and the fiscal cliff.....

[Scootertrash]

So it looks like the same old same old for 4 more years. While Gary Johnson did get around a million votes, it wouldn't have mattered if they had voted for Romney. That tells me that the welfare class and the FSA (Free Sh*t Army) have grown enough in size to vote themselves in a leader who will allow them to continue to feed at the trough filled by those who work hard and pay taxes. So be it.

The fiscal cliff?
Here's what to expect in the near future:

A bunch of tax cuts are set to expire Jan 1st:

Payroll (social security) tax will rise 2% (from 4.2% to 6.2% for most people)
The 10% income tax bracket jumps to 15%
The 25% and higher brackets all jump 3% higher
Capital gains for low income people will be taxed at 10% instead of 0%, and those for the rest of us will be taxed at 20% instead of 15%.
Estate/inheritance taxes will jump from 35% to 55% and the exemption drops from $5.5m to $1m.

In addition the tax increases from Obamacare kick in at the same time (0.9% on income of high-earners, 3.8% on investment income of high-earners), and the Alternative Minimum tax reverts to it's old numbers potentially making an extra 21 million households pay even more tax.

ETA:Forgot to add the following:

Lots of tax deductions will be reduced including the phaseout of personal exemptions and itemized deductions for higher income earners, the increase from 7.5% to 10% of income for claiming medical expenses, lowering of the standard deduction for married couples, deduction of student loan interest will phaseout for incomes above $50,000, the credit for up to $5,250 of employer provided education assistance will expire, the maximum credit for child care will be reduced by 20% and will phase out starting at incomes over $10,000, the child credit will be cut in half from $1000 to $500, and the earned income tax credit will be phased out at lower incomes.

It will hit almost everyone who works really hard and probably throw the country back into recession.

Repubs and Dems have been arguing over extending the cuts but can't come to agreement, Dems want to keep the tax rate cuts for the lower income people (<$59,300 household AGI income) and just let the "rich" (those earning over $59,500 if married or $35,500 if single) get their taxes raised.

How many of you fall into the above category? Are you "rich"?

A little longer range:

This is how I understand it, I'm not a finance guru so it may have some errors in it:

We are rapidly approaching the point at which the federal gov't can't fund itself. Something like 40% of what they spend is borrowed and doesn't come from tax revenues.

But other entities (like countries) who have loaned us money are starting to think that we'll never pay it back (they're probably right) and that the interest rate they're being paid (piddly) for loaning to us just isn't enough to cover the risk.

So they stop loaning us money (this is already starting). 2 things happen at that point - either rates have to rise to better reward those who loan to us (thus decreasing our ability to service our own debt) and/or our own Federal Reserve starts buying this issued debt with self-created (printed) money causing massive inflation. And because each dollar is worth less (because there are more in circulation) other countries start dumping our currency which makes things even worse.

But because we're in a global economy, wages generally won't rise to match the inflation (stuff will just go offshore instead). The pressure on the average citizen gets worse and worse and eventually we end up in a depression. And the dollar loses its reserve currency status, meaning that things like oil become obscenely expensive.
Tax receipts plummet. Drains on the gov't (medicaid, food stamps etc) get even worse. Our ability to service our debt gets worse.
They will try to raise taxes, which just tanks the economy worse and won't work (Google the Laffer curve).

The economy collapses. And eventually the gov't does too, imploding under its own weight.

It's fairly grim. Prepare accordingly.

ETA: Another explanation here:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-1...s-fiscal-cliff

[poohbee1]

at least i found out im rich

[ezmoney1979]

Boo hoo. This is the same crap that has been talked about for as long as I can remember (the late 80's). If one man in a fancy suit, that you dont even know, has this kind of control over you, then yes, you are screwed. When the economy took a down turn a few years back (there was never a recession, just things returning to "normal") I lost my decent paying job with insurance/benefits. I had some friends of mine that just folded, let the banks take their houses, cars etc, basically gave up. They were in over their heads with over-priced crap they didn't need anyhow. I myself went and got my crappy old job back (cut in pay,no benefits/insurance) and made the most out of it. I payed my truck off, bought a house last year for a little more than I had been paying for rent and my wife drives a new car.............. OK it's a Hyundai, but you get the point. The only person in control of your life, and the direction you take it, is YOU, not the puppet you believe in on TV.
Ok, Ezmoneys motivational speach time is over, I gotta get my 500 ready for an upcoming dune trip, or I could just give up and "live in a van, down by the river"

[Scootertrash]

No one said anything about giving up.

The comment was "Prepare accordingly".

Much like you were more prepared (and adaptable) than your friends who gave up, I'm fully capable of adapting and have multiple skills that can help me keep my head above water and earning money. Unlike many people even I know who play the "I've never done anything but this", or"I'm too old to start something different", or whatever excuse they may have, I'm not afraid to try something new and different if I need to.

In addition, I don't believe in puppets and I watch very little TV, so there will be two spots down by the river for vans, but I'll be deer hunting this weekend not wheelieing thru the dunes. Enjoy your trip and keep the shiny side up!

[timex69]

Some may find this information off topic/misleading because i am a Canadian but i'm going to give me 2 cents just for fun. Ive been watching alot of American news lately because of the election and this is what i think. If you 14 trillion dollars in debt tax's have to rise to pay down the debt, due to overspending by the previous administration and the current one.

The middle class is always going to get hit with the tax increases because that's where the most tax revenue comes from. Everyone always says well raise the tax's on the rich people and wealthy companies and to an extent that's what should happen but how much is fair and why do certain incomes have to pay the brunt of tax's while others get off paying minimal tax's.

Not to pick on low income households because in certain situations like being a single parent, low income seniors, mentally/physically ill people etc should have the right to pay less tax and there well being looked out for but for everyone that's healthy, between 18 and 65 ready willing and able to work SHOULD. It may not be in your field of study/expertise, it may not be the money you used to make 10 years ago and you just might not like it but too bad. Get to work, pay your taxs, adapt to your new income and stop complaining.

Has anyone else noticed the sense of entitlement of some people? In my neck of the woods familys with combined incomes of between 40k and 60k a year live like millionaires. 2 new cars in the driveway of there big new house with a pool and all the toys. Then when a rainy day hits there budget is so tight the repo man comes and there poor financial situation is everyones fault but there own.

Thats the end of my rant, its just everywhere you go now people complaining about the price of gas, low pay rate, high tax's, cost of food, high unemployment rate but lots of fair jobs in the classifieds etc. Things do cost more but i still count myself lucky to be doing as well as I am and Canadians and Americans have a much higher standard of living compared to alot of places. Anyone else get what im saying?

[Dirtcrasher]

I think it's as simple as this, We are headed for even more unemployment, billions spent yet never accounted , Obamacare.

Good luck to the under middle to low class. This is getting very very bad...

IDK, This is NOT good,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Believe me, this is 4 years headed for more deception and the further drop of the economy.

[Scootertrash]

timex69,
I agree with you in part. Just raising taxes will not pay off our debt. Our government doesn't have an income problem, it has a spending problem. As with any household or business, the government needs to live within it's budget, something that the Obama administration has failed to present to the public in four years. Four friggin' years without a budget?

So if taxes are going to be raised on the upper and middle class to help pay off the debt, then the lower class also has to do it's fair share and make do with less. What is considered poverty level in this country is the lap of luxury in most other countries. Obama even said it in one of his State of the Union addresses "Everyone pays their fair share, everyone does their fair share of the work." When he says "everyone" I expect it to be "everyone".

It's 2012 fer cryin out loud, we can work from home on our computers doing medical insurance billing. Doesn't matter if you like it or not, it's a job and it allows someone to work from home and contribute to the economy. too many people think that entry level jobs are below them. Tough titties, ya gotta start somewhere.

I also agree with your sense of entitlement stance. Many people in this area are the same. They then wonder why they are broke at the end of the month., and yes it's someone else's fault when the repo man shows up.

Dirtcrasher hit the nail square on the head.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Texas gentlemen... Texas.

[Howdy]

This will probably be the worst thing that will effect the American Economy in our Lifetime. All the Media should have been making a Big Deal about this, not just Fox.

While I don't like what could happen, I'm thinking drive this Fricken thing off the Clift. Let er go Boys!!! Then and Only then will the Spend Happy People ( in BOTH Political Parties ) will get a dose of Reality. Then they will be forced to Clamp down on our wasteful spending. Then we can start a true rebuilding of America.

Will I like the outcome at first? Hell No, But I would rather get this taken care of NOW. We can not handle the ever increasing spending habits of this Goverment. IF it means Cutting the Military, well so be it ( Not happy with this but gotta do what we gotta do ). If Military is Cut $1, then Entitlements need cut by $5, and wastefull spending by $5. Eliminate Obamaphones, It got abused so end it. Teach the lazy SOB's that rules are RULES!!! Eliminate a lot of welfare and replace it with workfare. If you need money to live, then get your ass out there and HELP the community. Sweep sidewalks, Pick up trash in the ditches, Paint the delapitated buildings, ect. The free handouts have to stop!! We should ONLY help those who are trying to help themselves do better.

Same goes with Congress, Senate, and the Presidencey. If you can't pass a BALANCED Budget EVERY year ON TIME, then you don't get a raise, and your pay and Benefits gets cut by 50% for the year. If you can't do it 2 years in a row, then take another 50% away ( Down to 25% at this point ), ect, ect!! There can be NO wavers, no exceptions to this. ALSO, Healthcare: Since we have Mandated Healthcare then EVERYONE from a newborn all the way through to the President should be on the Same Healthcare set up. Same goes for Retirement. If you get caught cheating the system, you lose everything. Special Interest perks? Those need taxed at 2000% ( 20 times the perk ). Don't report something and get caught? Kicked out and you lose it all!!

Yea, I'm on my soapbox, and yes I can come up with ways to fix this F'd up mess, how ever I am just one single vote, and you can dam well bet I will Vote for who ever Best aligns with my views.


And yes this Country is messed up and "WE THE PEOPLE" need to take it back.
Howdy

[dcreel]

I agree with you 100%

[3Razors]

Texas gentlemen... Texas.

Add Arizona, Utah, and all the other Red states alongside!! I'm proud that they held true! I wish the red states could just join together and form a new country to be free from all the liberal dead weight.

[Scootertrash]

This will probably be the worst thing that will effect the American Economy in our Lifetime. All the Media should have been making a Big Deal about this, not just Fox.

While I don't like what could happen, I'm thinking drive this Fricken thing off the Clift. Let er go Boys!!! Then and Only then will the Spend Happy People ( in BOTH Political Parties ) will get a dose of Reality. Then they will be forced to Clamp down on our wasteful spending. Then we can start a true rebuilding of America.

Will I like the outcome at first? Hell No, But I would rather get this taken care of NOW. We can not handle the ever increasing spending habits of this Goverment. IF it means Cutting the Military, well so be it ( Not happy with this but gotta do what we gotta do ). If Military is Cut $1, then Entitlements need cut by $5, and wastefull spending by $5. Eliminate Obamaphones, It got abused so end it. Teach the lazy SOB's that rules are RULES!!! Eliminate a lot of welfare and replace it with workfare. If you need money to live, then get your ass out there and HELP the community. Sweep sidewalks, Pick up trash in the ditches, Paint the delapitated buildings, ect. The free handouts have to stop!! We should ONLY help those who are trying to help themselves do better.

Same goes with Congress, Senate, and the Presidencey. If you can't pass a BALANCED Budget EVERY year ON TIME, then you don't get a raise, and your pay and Benefits gets cut by 50% for the year. If you can't do it 2 years in a row, then take another 50% away ( Down to 25% at this point ), ect, ect!! There can be NO wavers, no exceptions to this. ALSO, Healthcare: Since we have Mandated Healthcare then EVERYONE from a newborn all the way through to the President should be on the Same Healthcare set up. Same goes for Retirement. If you get caught cheating the system, you lose everything. Special Interest perks? Those need taxed at 2000% ( 20 times the perk ). Don't report something and get caught? Kicked out and you lose it all!!

Yea, I'm on my soapbox, and yes I can come up with ways to fix this F'd up mess, how ever I am just one single vote, and you can dam well bet I will Vote for who ever Best aligns with my views.


And yes this Country is messed up and "WE THE PEOPLE" need to take it back.
Howdy

May I subscribe to your newsletter?

HOWDY FOR PRESIDENT!!!!

[Billy Golightly]

This will probably be the worst thing that will effect the American Economy in our Lifetime. All the Media should have been making a Big Deal about this, not just Fox.

While I don't like what could happen, I'm thinking drive this Fricken thing off the Clift. Let er go Boys!!! Then and Only then will the Spend Happy People ( in BOTH Political Parties ) will get a dose of Reality. Then they will be forced to Clamp down on our wasteful spending. Then we can start a true rebuilding of America.

Will I like the outcome at first? Hell No, But I would rather get this taken care of NOW. We can not handle the ever increasing spending habits of this Goverment. IF it means Cutting the Military, well so be it ( Not happy with this but gotta do what we gotta do ). If Military is Cut $1, then Entitlements need cut by $5, and wastefull spending by $5. Eliminate Obamaphones, It got abused so end it. Teach the lazy SOB's that rules are RULES!!! Eliminate a lot of welfare and replace it with workfare. If you need money to live, then get your ass out there and HELP the community. Sweep sidewalks, Pick up trash in the ditches, Paint the delapitated buildings, ect. The free handouts have to stop!! We should ONLY help those who are trying to help themselves do better.

Same goes with Congress, Senate, and the Presidencey. If you can't pass a BALANCED Budget EVERY year ON TIME, then you don't get a raise, and your pay and Benefits gets cut by 50% for the year. If you can't do it 2 years in a row, then take another 50% away ( Down to 25% at this point ), ect, ect!! There can be NO wavers, no exceptions to this. ALSO, Healthcare: Since we have Mandated Healthcare then EVERYONE from a newborn all the way through to the President should be on the Same Healthcare set up. Same goes for Retirement. If you get caught cheating the system, you lose everything. Special Interest perks? Those need taxed at 2000% ( 20 times the perk ). Don't report something and get caught? Kicked out and you lose it all!!

Yea, I'm on my soapbox, and yes I can come up with ways to fix this F'd up mess, how ever I am just one single vote, and you can dam well bet I will Vote for who ever Best aligns with my views.


And yes this Country is messed up and "WE THE PEOPLE" need to take it back.
Howdy

I really like the idea of incentivizing the passing of budgets consistently and on-time or the senate and house reps get their benefits taken away. Now that might actually work!

[Mosh]

I like the idea of congress and senate getting penalized for their procrastionations..However, since they 'make the rules" I highly doubt you can get them to vote against themselves to take the penalties..even though right now that may have a fighting chance with a stronger side of repbulicans in the seat, I don't see even them taking a pay cut and voting for it.


In other news...another "free Obama" item he approved...

in the community where I work, he gave the city/utilites officials some 580,000$ to go rip out all the old phone poles, so that new ones could be put throughout the city to provide FREE WIFI service within city limits...Now I am sure that somewhere in my broadband/cable bill in conjunction with other utilities of mine that keep rising, I am just about certain that I/we are paying for this.. I have not been able to find any published info on this at a public level, but that is what the utility guys told us when they ripped the poles up 5 miles in every direction around the community...

So now instead of an Obama flip phone with no internet, they can get a smartphone and enjoy unlimited wi fi service for browsing in conjunction with the free talk time and the GOVT dont pay for it..we do once again.

Also I wanted to add that in this state the majority of it voted republican in rural outlands, but the large inner city counties where all the free loaders reside, voted democrat. Also counties that have auto manufacturing, voted strongly for Obama praising his bailout in the counties where the factories were..
I am very dissappointed with the people in this area..

What they didnt see was the bail-out and cash for clunkers campaign, took far more out of the local economy than saving the factories brought in.
All cash for clunkers were ordered destroyed, with no chance of salvage yards making money on used engine sales, which also affected the private repair sector revenues..Combine that with the fact that so many took advantage of the cash for clunkers campaign, that independent repair service in shops have lost probably 40%-50% of repair business, since many of the people are driving newer vehicles with factory warranties still in effect, obviously paid for once again with the bail out money..

I see my shops numbers..We are down nearly 40% in revenue in 4 years since the bailout and cash for clunkers..

[CRAZY70MAN]

I like the idea of congress and senate getting penalized for their procrastionations..However, since they 'make the rules" I highly doubt you can get them to vote against themselves to take the penalties..even though right now that may have a fighting chance with a stronger side of repbulicans in the seat, I don't see even them taking a pay cut and voting for it.


In other news...another "free Obama" item he approved...

in the community where I work, he gave the city/utilites officials some 580,000$ to go rip out all the old phone poles, so that new ones could be put throughout the city to provide FREE WIFI service within city limits...Now I am sure that somewhere in my broadband/cable bill in conjunction with other utilities of mine that keep rising, I am just about certain that I/we are paying for this.. I have not been able to find any published info on this at a public level, but that is what the utility guys told us when they ripped the poles up 5 miles in every direction around the community...

So now instead of an Obama flip phone with no internet, they can get a smartphone and enjoy unlimited wi fi service for browsing in conjunction with the free talk time and the GOVT dont pay for it..we do once again.

Also I wanted to add that in this state the majority of it voted republican in rural outlands, but the large inner city counties where all the free loaders reside, voted democrat. Also counties that have auto manufacturing, voted strongly for Obama praising his bailout in the counties where the factories were..
I am very dissappointed with the people in this area..

What they didnt see was the bail-out and cash for clunkers campaign, took far more out of the local economy than saving the factories brought in.
All cash for clunkers were ordered destroyed, with no chance of salvage yards making money on used engine sales, which also affected the private repair sector revenues..Combine that with the fact that so many took advantage of the cash for clunkers campaign, that independent repair service in shops have lost probably 40%-50% of repair business, since many of the people are driving newer vehicles with factory warranties still in effect, obviously paid for once again with the bail out money..

I see my shops numbers..We are down nearly 40% in revenue in 4 years since the bailout and cash for clunkers..

Well said Rob. And for those who were misled from the media. Obama did not bail out the auto industry. He did exactly what Romney stated he would have done "Restructured". Look for yourself on the internet....Chrysler's bankruptcy filing is viewable on line. Lies!!! If GM is doing so well....how come there stock is stuck at 25 bucks a share.....half of what is once was? They did file for bankruptcy protection. 50,000 dollars for a pickup truck??? Get a grip auto industry....no way are their vehicle prices justified. Oh ya....who bailed out Ford???? Oh.....Ford did. Goes to show government help ain't always the right answer. Read this http://mittromneycentral.com/tag/wan...auto-industry/ Obama has never ran a business or created jobs...he just steals from the rest of working America to create the illusion of jobs. Where is all the Highway work? Where are all of these Natural gas jobs? ps. I have worked inthe Natural gas field for 20 years and live in the heart of fracking. And let me tell you...there ain't no promise land in sight from what I see every day?? Where are all of the loans, the risk taker business owners that take the risk for the reward to try and start a company and put americans to work?? Where where oh where are they?? Bottom line is when the people with the money to start a company see no leadership and no written in stone policy from a President who has nothing to show from 4 years, they ain't gonna "Risk" their money for no "Reward". Would you?? The money is still out there........you just will not see it for another 4 years. Whewww.....done with my rant........I feel much better.