WTF Gas Prices! This is INSANE

[ps2fixer]

General rule of thumb for tail gates... up is better, ecomodder is plasted with research on it and simulations etc, basically the air from the roof line falls sooner than the tail gate, so it crates a bubble of air to push over the rest of the air so it is a little bit cleaner flow. With the tail gate down, the bubble can't form, so you have a bit more cd (coefficent drag). Putting one of the bed tops on is better, toppers are generally pretty bad, but if one is made well in an areo way (lower back), it is even better. I saw one ford ranger on ecomodder with the topper setup and he got nearly 60mpg.

3 miles round trip is really short, the engine don't heat up fully etc, so you are always running rich in the warm up mode. I would say every so often take it out on the express way and run it a bit hard to clear out the engine, and get her warmed up well every so often, makes sure no water gets in the oil too. Just to compair, at around 1.5 miles into my trip my car hits 30mpg average at the stop for the trip, about half of that is coasting. If I'm in a hurry to work, normally it is under 20mpg and the only real difference is my take off rate is faster than ideal and faster travel speed (55-60mph vs 45mph on a cold engine that will not shift into overdrive or lockup till it is 130F coolant temp). So going off your numbers and mine, you are not doing super bad, guessing on a long trip you can get probably around 12-13mpg under similar diving situations. I haven't dont a lot of research on water injection, but it is a known way to clean your engine out and people on ecomodder have done it for their own reasons. I have seen a video of a VW engine that had 2 cyl for gas, and the exhaust went into the other 2 cyls with a water mist spray @ TDC to use up the exhaust heat and get a little more power out of the same gas. Not sure if it works in real world or not, but is a cool theory (youtube videos are a bad source of "proof").

One thing I should point out about MPG is that it is a really bad measure standard. Take a truck that gets 15mpg for example, and you increase it 15mpg, sounds pretty good, 30mpg out of a truck, which is a 100% gain, now take a car that gets 30mpg, and increase 15mpg, 45mpg sounds just as impressive, but it is only 50% better, to get the same results the 30mpg car would have to get 60mpg, which is a lot of modding. Take a geo that gets 45mpg and now you have to get 90mpg to get the same % increase. There is another standard that isn't used much in the usa, Gallons per 100 miles, which is much better visual way to see it, 15mpg = 6.66 g/100m and 30mpg = 3.33 g/100m, and 45mpg = 2.22 g/100m, you can clearly see 6.66 to 3.33 is a bigger jump than 3.33 to 2.22. This is the standard overseas, and maybe in Canada, but in km.

[Mosh]

And that sums it up right there. 10 bucks on a Friday night put gas in your car , paid for 2 meals, and even maybe a movie ticket or two for you and your girl..Ten bucks dont buy two bucks today. Most movies aint worth a 2 dollar ticket , a back seat aint big enough to make out in , and you get a ticket from the po-po for loitering in a parking lot.

[oldskool83]

I spend 20 maybe 30 a week in fuel. 04 civic, im anal on manintance as I am with everything. ya know the fuel injector clearner stuff really works and so do all them new air filters and jaz. Funny how 6 gallons of fuel can get 300 miles at least a week. take care ya autos, even my big as lifted dodge on 35s with a 318 got 12mpg and its all done up. take care ya motors. im sure 75% of them are not and thats why everyone bitches about gas prices. we are addicted to fuel. and i love the ill buy a streetbike to save fuel. waste of more money. lol. just adapt. love or hate it i say it how it is. funny the single moms working at turkey hill can manage to adapt, im sure most of us with 10 V8s and lots of toys can also. just saying....

[Eric250R]

And that sums it up right there. 10 bucks on a Friday night put gas in your car , paid for 2 meals, and even maybe a movie ticket or two for you and your girl..Ten bucks dont buy two bucks today. Most movies aint worth a 2 dollar ticket , a back seat aint big enough to make out in , and you get a ticket from the po-po for loitering in a parking lot.

Amen........

[kb0nly]

I do regular maintenance on my Jeep, sometimes more then required because it works for a living, and without it i don't work, so kinda have to keep up on the stuff. I put new plugs and wires on it, about all you can do on these modern ignition systems, but the wires were factory and ten years old so why not spruce it up with some fresh OEM wires. Didn't see much mileage gain if any but now i feel better for doing it.

Air filter is new, thats one thing i always have a spare of, if its getting dirty when i check it, which i do almost weekly depending on if i am driving down a lot of gravel roads, and those gimmick filters and special cold air intakes don't do jack for me at least. The Liberty pulls its intake from a scoop that goes up to where the hood meets the upper rad cross member, it pulls in outside air from between the hood and the grill, pretty neat actually how they engineered it. I know guys on the Jeep forums that tried K&N setups and actually got worst mileage, although a bit more horsepower that only a dyno could prove. So not worth making changes there.

Fuel injectors are all fairly new, i forget if it was one or two years, it started having a stumble in the idle due to a leaky injector they all got replaced. At that time it took me from an average of 17mpg to just over 19mpg, so it helped.

All i can say is having a mortgage and three kids makes the gas prices ever present in your mind. And even worst it hit now when school is out.. Why does that matter? When they are in school they eat breakfast and lunch at school, meaning five days a week i only had to make supper.. Now i have to provide all three meals all week. And boy oh boy i tell ya, groceries aren't getting cheaper either. I budget, i plan, all the meals get planned on a calendar, heck i even clip some coupons now... But you can only stretch that money so far!! LOL

[ps2fixer]

Regarding the coupons, there are people out there that know how to work the system, get shopping carts full of food etc for like $0.17, I saw it with my own eyes.

Sounds like your Jeep's factory setup is a cold air intake, even though most factory intakes are fairly restrictive which only really effects things in the high rpm range. You would increase mpg slightly by running what ecomodder members call a hot air intake, take air off the exhaust. Depending how your computer is programmed in the jeep, hotter is better to an extent. Theory behind it is reduced pumping losses, but at the same time you loose HP, which in this case gives better MPG due to the engine being more efficent as an air pump. This same theory is the claim as to why Diesel engines get good mpg vs gas besides there being a slight bit more power in the actual fuel. Diesel = wide open throttle, only thing that changes is how much fuel is dumped. In a diesel case, colder the air intake, the better, since it is more air/o2 and there isn't a fuel mixure required like with gas.

If money is truely tight there are places to ask for help. Some places help with heating costs, others with food, etc.

[Lord Letto 20]

Regarding the coupons, there are people out there that know how to work the system, get shopping carts full of food etc for like $0.17, I saw it with my own eyes.

Extreme Couponing, It's a TV Show, Look it up.

[kb0nly]

Yeah i know all about the show, i also know its rigged...

They did an episode up in St Paul a year ago, a friend of mine up there is an assistant manager for the store. The store was asked if in return for publicity if they would do things they normally dont... Stack coupons, stacking means using more than one copy of the same coupon per item or items even if it clearly says one per customer, doubling coupons on top of store specials, most stores won't do that either.

Trust me i know firsthand that show is total bunk. I have tried very hard to coupon the heck out of a shopping trip, very frustrating when you get to the checkout and they start handing back coupons they cant take more than one of per purchase or double.. Sure you can also sleezeball it and separate your cart into like ten different purchases to work the system also, but some stores are starting to tell you to take a hike on that too because of the increased time this delays processing at the checkout. They are all about moving fast. I got rude comments one time for separating my cart into three purchases, and it was only because there was food, non-food, and then some stuff for a friend that sent money with me since i was stopping there anyway. They don't seem to like that practice either.

My last grocery trip, with big envelope of coupons in hand, the total was $234 after the coupons were scanned it was $322... I saved a whole $14 by cutting coupons for two hours... Yeah me... LOL Thats not even a 1/4 tank of gas now..

A friend of mine lost his job about a month ago, decided to take some schooling to get into a new job, he applied for support on his expenses, mainly gas driving. They credit him $.15 per mile.... His car gets about 25 mpg, so he is getting $3.75 per gallon for support. I guess thats not bad, but it doesn't cover the cost either.

[Tri-Z 250]

.....and you thought Bush was an Oil guy. What you thought we were going to pay for Obama care just through taxes? I predict that as the price of a gallon goes up to $4.10reg over the Holiday. The price will only drop back to $3.85 and remain and never drop from that point. As the squeeze to the working poor becomes greater remember...Obama phone, and WIC recipients buying porter house steaks who already get free health care in the ER for the flu. Why work when you can live a better life on the system. Gas prices don't effect you because you ride the bus on a semi supported bus pass. Why get married and claim your child as a dependent...Baby mama's get full free ticket births, food stamps and housing assistance. Best part is white America is now following the 4th generation experts who have laid out the ground work for this entire mess. Gas has been a molested commodity as soon as they let it on the exchange...welcome to the ride you have no say in the matter, deal with it. E85 and the corn ethanol mixed fuels cost more and work less...Sound familiar?

[kb0nly]

E85 has been coming up here a lot since the price spiked... Problem is, its about efficiency and E85 isn't that efficient.. I know plenty of people here that have E85 vehicles, and all of them tell me they get at least 25% less mileage, some as high as 30-35%...

So they save a little at the pump, but they burn more to get the same mileage... So how much do they save? Not a lot...

Oh i was on the phone when someone else walked in, looked at my last post mentioning the coupon fraud and suggested a link showing how the whole thing worked and how it broke out to the press.

http://www.jillcataldo.com/node/16258

They were using the coupons in a fraudulent way, and the system was fixed in the last year or so with a new barcode system, now they can't use the coupons on other products by the same manufacturer using the family code. Interesting! The biggest of the "savers" on that show was recently charged in court as well and is facing a huge amount of restitution, which with our court system won't mean a whole lot but still...

[ps2fixer]

I remember reading on Ecomodder about E85, the basic energy in the fuel is like 20% less, then the fact the engine is more designed for gas, so E85 does not burn properly, so the inefficiency of it can range a lot depending on design. Long story short, E85 costs more in the long run, unless you have a car designed 100% for E85 and not "E10" as our standard pump gas now. You can't buy straight gas any more. Remember long ago that a little VW could get 50mpg easy while beating the snot out of it, today your are lucky to get 40-45 out of it on this "new" gas.

[kb0nly]

Yep such is life... But then i haven't had straight gas here for something like 15 years? Just a guess, i know its been at least ten since before my oldest son was born, and i know it was some time before that also.

I have blender pumps here, E10, E15, E20, E30 and E85 are the common mixes available. If you need your carb cleaned out run a higher mix, E20 does wonders cleaning out the crud of the fuel system on lawnmowers, i know i have done it many times. Its just basically more alcohol, same as adding fuel system cleaner to the tank. If you really want to clean it out run a half tank of E85 through it as you start mowing the lawn, then refill with regular E10. Its like taking the carb apart and cleaning it... LOL

[ps2fixer]

Lol might have to try that some time. I know E85 will attack different rubber parts if they are soaked in it, running for an hour to two shouldn't hurt them though. If I remember correctly, to run E85 you need like 20% larger jets to run correctly and no rubber parts in the touchable fuel system, but that is for running it all the time.

[kb0nly]

Actually the newer FFV vehicles still have rubber in the fuel system, its just that rubber made in the last like ten years or so can take it, the older stuff wasn't formulated to withstand the higher alcohol content. I have taken brand new rubber hose from the local auto parts store and soaked it in a cup of E85 for a week and it wasn't harmed, but then i have also taken an old chunk of fuel line that has been around for a while, i think it came off a 110 i worked on, and put that into a cup of E85 and the fuel took on a weird color overnight and after a few days the rubber hose went from age hardened to softer but then went to like gooey, it smeared in your hand if you tried to grab it.

Yes you would need larger jets though, you need to flow a lot more fuel. The E85 conversion kits for fuel injected vehicles plug inline with the fuel injectors and vary the pulse length to add more fuel per cycle, so for the carb vehicles or trikes you would have to do the same, increase fuel flow. I have ran a trike on E85 to prove a point, i got bet that it wouldn't even run on it, let alone be able to move. It was a ATC200M, drained the tank and carb bowl, filled with E85 and then set the mixture screw a bit richer, it definitely had less top end but it idled and drove around just fine up until almost full throttle where it would stumble and you could tell it was lean, but bigger jets i could definitely get it to take a full time diet of E85.

[Worden18]

Some day Big Oil is going to crash permanently; it won't be in my lifetime, but I sure would like to see them bastards go down the tubes....