An uninteresting 200x thread

[DohcBikes]

Pics of the top of the piston and a backlit pic of the cylinder would be nice.

[barnett468]

Hello redsox;

...took the runner out of the other machine and started a tear down. got the cam out and have the head off. everything looks great. the jug and head look perfect. the piston is marked "965" on top. the jug is stuck on tight and i couldn't get it off.

i want to order the stuff i'll need. i'm gonna order a better gasket kit. has anyone dealt with G+H Supply on ebay? their prices are good.

also, i'm questioning the "if it ain't broke" theorem. if everything is kosher in the top end thats going on, should i futz with it? hone, rings, piston, valve seals, etc. etc.? i know i probably should, but why?

what does the "965" mean? is that stock? thats all for now. thanks for looking.

I would do ALL the inspections suggested by all, you obviously can't tell if the valves are leaking simply by looking at them. Very few here want to see you post a thread that says "Hey my engine smokes and pops, how come?", lol.


G H DISCOUNT ATV - The biggest thing I care about is getting quality parts. I see they have Shindy and D. I. D. which as I mentioned are very high quality parts. This does not mean that everything they carry is good. I suggest you simply list the brand name of the parts you are interested in before you but them if you want and we can tell you what we think about them. They have 99% positive feedback for 37,000 parts so their service is probably good.


936 ON PISTON - I don't remember for sure, however, if it is cast in [not stamped], I would "guess" it is orig, but since guessing wont help you, hopefully someone else will know for sure.


CYL REMOVAL - Ok, one way to Neanderthal the cyl off is to take a putty knife [because they have a fairly thin blade], sharpen the blade on one side only, round both corners slightly to reduce the potential for “gouging” then H A M M A R that baby between the eng case and cylinder about 1/2 the depth of the gasket with a big 2 pounder on one side then the other and simply work your way around stopping to try and rock it off occasionally. Yes this is one of my more “technical” suggestions, lol.


CYL/PISTON - Since you are likely going to keep the bike for a while, I would inspect the piston/cyl as suggested and repair as necessary. At the very least I would get the cyl trued if necessary and install new rings. If you are on a super tight budget and your cylinder is good but your piston to cyl clearance is slightly loose, you can simply get your piston knurled buy an old guy at an old machine shop. More super high tech info for ya.


TIMING CHAIN – I would use a D. I. D., Wiesco or orig Honda only. There are chains for around 30% less however the chain is a critical part and if it breaks it will make you and your engine very, very unhappy. It’s also best to replace the timing gears along with the chain, otherwise the chain will wear prematurely.


GASKETS

Athena gaskets are made in Italy and cost less than the others below. I would not use them but some say they are ok.

Vesrah gaskets are made in Japan.

Cometic gaskets are xlnt and made in the US.

Not everyone has good success with Athena’s as evidenced by the comments below, however, there are two sides to every story and if these guys here like them, with proper installation on FLAT gasket surfaces you should have no problem. I NOT like leaks. I just prefer the best gaskets I can get when using them on the cylinder head. I do NOT like leaks.


“My Athena kit sucked and leaked around the cam chain after a couple weeks. The rubber piece that went around the cam chain opening between the head and cylinder looked like it was a terrible excuse for the shape it was trying to fill. Also the Vesrah kits I have ordered in the past include new valve seals. The Athena kit for my Trail 90 was too cheap to include the one needed valve seal. I would never buy an Athena kit again.”


Orig head gasket and others may be avail from Honda. See http://cmsnl.com and http://partzilla.com for orig parts. Cmsnl stocks many discontinued orig parts. Partzilla’s prices are less than cmsnl’s.



And, I’m not going to mention oil this time…Oh darn it, I just did…Man I need help!

[MNhondaguy]

Yes, I guess I have an oil fetish. I guess there are much worse [or less fun] things one could have. Perhaps I should enroll in a 12 step "de-oiling fetish" program, lol. "Hello everyone...my name is Barnett, and I LOVE oil..."

http://www.webcamshafts.com/

There's one of you on every forum out there, and many people are educated correctly by such persons. I am thankful for people with the knowledge and patience to inform others.

[redsox]

yeah i met jeffatc250r 2 weeks ago spring time comes im in

Funny lookin' kid, ain't he? Don't let his boyish good looks fool you. He speaks 6 languages, is one hell of an opera singer, and can tune a banjo in under 4 seconds. he once won a slam dunk contest by accident.

NO progress today boys. 8-10 powder. sick of it!! more to come tomorrow after work. sorry.

[barnett468]

NO progress today boys. 8-10 powder. sick of it!! more to come tomorrow after work. sorry.

Hey, thanks for stoppin in to tell us ya got nothin ta tell us, lol.

[rg97]

Hey, thanks for stoppin in to tell us ya got nothin ta tell us, lol.

Hey, thanks for adding something useful and upbuilding to the thread, lol.

redsox,
If you cant get the jug off make sure there is nothing holding it back, before you take a to it. If you want to do what barnett suggested with a putty knife watch that you dont hit a stud. That would be a headache. Also watch that you dont scratch the mating surfaces. If you do, when you replace the gaskets it won't seal right and you'll need a new jug and/or case. Dont rush into it and have it bite you in the butt!
I know the feeling about snow man! I've had like a dump of 4-5", then a week goes by, and then another 4-5" for about a month now. It hit above freezing for the first time this month today. Supposed to be in the high 40's on thursday here. I'm preparing my ark for the flood!

[redsox]

ok, so, someone i greatly respect always says "never let lazy be the reason" so, i ate a quick supper and went out to the barn to just accomplish one thing. move the project forward a bit. if i got one thing done then i knew i'd feel better than if i hit the couch and drank. so, i got the jug off and took pictures of the cylinder and the piston. the piston looks a bit burnt around the edges. is that bad? its in great shape otherwise. not a scratch. is everyone still leaning towards replacement? the cylinder looks immaculate. i tried my best to take pics. they came out so/so. i have a quality honing tool, but i'm a bit skeptical. how much do i hone? i don't wanna screw it up. i'm thinking i'll order the piston, rings, and gaskets tonight and i'll just re-ebay the tusk kit when it shows up. thoughts?

[barnett468]

Hey, thanks for adding something useful and upbuilding to the thread, lol.

Hey, thanks for making a useless, unnecessary, sarcastic remark for no good reason.

I guess you missed my other posts 18, 26 and 33. Although I’m certain that I missed something, I can’t think of anything else to add at this time unless I post info on the optimum viscosity oil to use in cold weather or what tires are best to use in the snow since he did say there was snow outside.

Would doing that make you happy?




Post 34.

There's one of you on every forum out there, and many people are educated correctly by such persons. I am thankful for people with the knowledge and patience to inform others.

Barnett has put up with way more...he is still here.

Yup!

I know the feeling about snow man! I've had like a dump of 4-5", then a week goes by, and then another 4-5" for about a month now. It hit above freezing for the first time this month today. Supposed to be in the high 40's on thursday here. I'm preparing my ark for the flood!

And you think this comment is related to his engine questions, "useful" to him and "upbuilds" the thread?



I have no suggestions for you, however, I at least think about what I am posting before I hit the send button. Don't forget, I have no edit button to hide behind. I hope this thread gets derailed no further than this. Although there might be a few here that like to read the type of comment you posted, I can ASSURE you it is a FACT that not everyone does.

[barnett468]

Hello redsox;


PS – Just curious, how did you get the cylinder off?

ok, so, someone i greatly respect always says "never let lazy be the reason" so, i ate a quick supper and went out to the barn to just accomplish one thing. move the project forward a bit. if i got one thing done then i knew i'd feel better than if i hit the couch and drank.

I would have chosen option "B".

i got the jug off and took pictures of the cylinder and the piston. the piston looks a bit burnt around the edges. is that bad? its in great shape otherwise. not a scratch. is everyone still leaning towards replacement? the cylinder looks immaculate. i tried my best to take pics. they came out so/so. i have a quality honing tool, but i'm a bit skeptical. how much do i hone? i don't wanna screw it up. i'm thinking i'll order the piston, rings, and gaskets tonight and i'll just re-ebay the tusk kit when it shows up. Thoughts?

I refer you to posts 1 thru 33 for most of your answers, lol. Again, I would measure, measure, measure.


CYLINDER - The cylinder looks like it has a few pit marks around 1” down from the top. If you can feel ANY irregularities in the surface near the top, I would definitely bore it irregardless of how the rest of it measures.


PISTON – I would not be worried about the color on the piston however I would MEASURE it also which actually has NOT been mentioned yet.

A piston can be heavily worn but still “look” ok. I would measure it 90 degrees to the pin [front to back] at 1/4” below the oil ring land, around 1” below the ring land and around 1/4” up from the bottom.

If the bottom is smaller than the middle measurement, it is worn beyond spec and I would replace it. If you do not, it will “rock” excessively in the cylinder which is not good.


RING LANDS [grooves] – These also wear and there is a service limit spec for them in the manual. If they are beyond spec and you use them the rings may “flutter”/”chatter” in the grooves with can prevent them from sealing properly, cause the rings to break and/or wear the cylinder prematurely.



PS - I hope this post is more useful than my post 36, lol.

[rg97]

You didn't include the part where I helped redsox. Too bad. I help then make a comment about the record weather which Redsox brought up first. I see nothing wrong with that. This is the end of this.
Redsox, if your cylinder is well within spec (measure top, bottom and measure front-back and side-side... If all at same or within a couple thousandths and are good according to Honda manual) then you can hone until you have a nice 45 degree cross hatch. Measure again. Honing only takes off a few thousandths of material so you'll be fine there.
I say replace all that you listed. That discoloration on the piston isn't bad but brand new stuff (OEM or higher comp wiseco) are going to be Better than a 30 year old part. Just imho

[DohcBikes]

I refer you to posts 1 thru 33 for most of your answers, lol. Again, I would measure, measure, measure.


PISTON – I would not be worried about the color on the piston however I would MEASURE it also which actually has NOT been mentioned yet.

Yes I realize that there are no pretty pictures to draw your attention to my posts, but......

In post 31.

I would measure ring gaps, piston, and cylinder at the minimum unless it was running perfect.

If you can't see the crosshatch its a good idea to hone it..

Sorry, it had to be done thanks for explaining further

Yep there's a bunch of top end knowledge in here to be reviewed, keep your Honda service manual handy!!

Barnett said one time that Honda is perfect. I saw it on the internet so I know its true.

[fabiodriven]

I may have missed some of these posts, I don't know what's going on up there. I stopped reading Barnett's posts within two weeks of his arrival and I can't change that now regardless of if he says anything pertinent or not. I simply just wouldn't know. The rest of this stuff seems stupid basic. Yeah don't scratch the mating surfaces, der. I certainly wouldn't toss a jug or case that had a gouged mating surface, I'd plane it then fill it with JB Weld. No biggie. You gotta be a real peach to even get to that point though, but I'd be lying if I said I've never seen it.

I'm not sure how far you're going with this machine, but if you're just going to be using it like we normally do and it's not a race bike or a show piece the answer is simple to me. If it were mine, I'd have the bore and piston measured. If a hone is all it needs and it's a factory piston, I'd hone it, re-ring it, and throw it back together. If it needed a bore then I'd have it bored and use a Honda piston. Just how I'd go about it personally.

[nicker71]

I've had good,success with G&H on both my 200x and 110. Im sure they would use oem parts or whatever you want as long as they sell you the parts. They did my head and cylinder on my x and it took about two weeks

[DohcBikes]

I may have missed some of these posts, I don't know what's going on up there. I stopped reading Barnett's posts within two weeks of his arrival and I can't change that now regardless of if he says anything pertinent or not. I simply just wouldn't know. The rest of this stuff seems stupid basic. Yeah don't scratch the mating surfaces, der. I certainly wouldn't toss a jug or case that had a gouged mating surface, I'd plane it then fill it with JB Weld. No biggie. You gotta be a real peach to even get to that point though, but I'd be lying if I said I've never seen it.

Seriously, can we get a LMAO button to click??

Would've saved a post for sure lol...

[Dirtcrasher]

Hey, thanks for stoppin in to tell us ya got nothin ta tell us, lol.

It's his THREAD, he can do what he wants