You think America has Immigration problems? See this...

[ironchop]

I propose a trade.

I'll gladly sit at The Gate and trade one worthless able-bodied welfare con artist 'American' for one hard working and willing Latin Americans

Most of my friends say they would have stayed home if they.could afford a decent life. I say since the US likes to overthrow "regimes" elsewhere in the world perhaps we could help our southern neighbors overthrow their oppressive governments so they might have a chance at Prosperity. My friend Jose had once told me when I asked what the problet was he said "Guns. If only we had as much guns and gun rights as Americans do, we would have thrown these people in the Gulf already"

[Scootertrash]

My friend Jose had once told me when I asked what the problem was he said "Guns. If only we had as much guns and gun rights as Americans do, we would have thrown these people in the Gulf already"

Why do you suppose every Soicialist/Communist/Dictatorship/Third World shytehole doesn't allow their citizens firearms??

[ironchop]

That's Mr. Arce-Cancino's opinion as well, Scooter.

The Cartels have guns, the Federales have guns and the people got jack squat

[redsox]

Good thread. So much to say but not time for everything. I'll start with a hot-button issue for me. Picking on Bill Gates. Bill Gates should give away his money???? WHY?? Bill Gates earned every nickel. He's smarter than you. He invented something that changed the world and made life better for everyone. He EARNED that money. he can do whatever he pleases with it. He can burn it. He can save it. He can help the poor with it. (Which he does, far more than ANY Government program in history) What has he done that is wrong? Punishing success and individual accomplishment is the a GREAT PLAN for prosperity. If Bill Gates gave all his money away to Africa, we'd have one more poor American and Africa would still suck. Everyone wants to tell the rich what to do with their money. Everyone knows better than the rich. Yet, it seems to me, if we were smarter than the rich, somehow more economically savvy, WE'd be rich? Right? The thinking is so flawed, it makes me nuts. Less rich people does not equal less poor people. Less rich people equals MORE poor people. The economy is not a finite number. If I have more, you do not necessarily have less because of it. Listen, when the tide comes in, every boat rises.

[ironchop]

Gates can hoard all the money he wants. I just dont want him being able to have such a huge political influence. The kinds of policies these people lobby for and donate millions to have been slowly bleeding folks like me dry for decades now. Im over it. Money doesn't mean you know a damn thing about whats best.for me and neither does it make him better than me.
I dont want anymore billionaires pretending to know whats best for me.They are almost ALWAYS wrong

[ironchop]

BTW, I meant to add that Gates was used merely as an example.

When it comes to the undisputed King of buying World Domination, one would have to look to George Soros. There is none higher in the public eye at least.

At least Gates is an American. Soros has no nationality and therefore is out purely for Ego.

Its always amazed me that its even legal for US Politicians to.accept campaign donations from foreign citizens and countries.

[ironchop]

Whatever happened too......IT`S A FELONY TO HIRE AN ILLEGAL ALIEN ?

I wonder that myself. I have never heard of them enforcing it ever. I know in residential construction, the American contractors look the other way cuz they make more by exploiting their status.

In Manufacturing, all I do know is they all presented IDs and SS cards that matched up. If they were undocumented, we couldn't tell any difference.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I wonder that myself. I have never heard of them enforcing it ever. I know in residential construction, the American contractors look the other way cuz they make more by exploiting their status.

In Manufacturing, all I do know is they all presented IDs and SS cards that matched up. If they were undocumented, we couldn't tell any difference.

And don't expect that to change any time soon... especially with the current regime.

And I'm with Redsox.. I have no grudge against "the rich".. No poor man ever signed my paycheck. What I don't like are the rich who try to slam shut the door behind them by lobbying for and using government regulation to facilitate it. It kind of equates to celebrities who run around flapping their lips preaching to us about how WE the masses should live while exempting themselves from the very ideas they would like us saddled with. As if their opinion matters more than any other working stiff citizen walking down the street..... To borrow a phrase from Andrew Wilkow- "Socialism is for the people, and not the socialist", and then "ideas so good, they have to be made mandatory".

[El Camexican]

Whatever happened too......IT`S A FELONY TO HIRE AN ILLEGAL ALIEN ?

This guys says: "Ill eagle fall from sky"

[redsox]

If a guy like Gates rakes in over a billion a year clear then tells you "WE" need to do more for the impoverished, ask yourself....

I think when Gates says "WE", he's addressing his billionaire brethren. Not a ham n' egger like yours truly.

I dont want anymore billionaires pretending to know whats best for me.They are almost ALWAYS wrong

Could you take the word "billionaires" out of this statement and still feel the same way? If so, then you and I are more on the same page than you think. There is a short list of people that know whats good for me. And Bill Gates ain't on it. Money and Power have become so convoluted that they're almost synonyms. There is a subtile and important difference though. Money allows you to pay others to do your bidding. That is really something. You can find someone who is willing to trade what is theirs for your money. Be it self-respect, time, family, goods, services, their basic humanity sometimes. All given in exchange for your Money. Power is different. Sure, it allows you the same control over others. More control. You can still take all of the above listed items from someone, BUT, the difference is where the choice lies. If I decide to shovel crap for five dollar an hour to feed my family, I have made that decision for Money. If the Government decides I MUST shovel crap for five dollars an hour to feed my family, THEY have made the decision. They have exercised POWER. Don't fear the rich. Fear the Government.

[fabiodriven]

The we need immigrants to do the jobs Americans won't do is BS people....Don't let em fool you that if an American were paid to do the low end menial jobs it would be too expensive.

I admittedly don't know a whole lot about this, so I'd like to know how the prices of so many things will not go up, including various foods or pre-assembled trusses or whatever you see immigrants doing, if you have to pay people more money per hour to do them. In the particular example of the farm used in "Inside Man", it ends up paying about $6 an hour those particular immigrants make, and they work extremely hard for it. Minimum wage is $7.50. That's a dollar and a half more per hour per employee across the board. You think the farmers are going to soak that up or we are? That's just the beginning.

You just will not get American people who will work half as hard as that for even $8 an hour, you just won't find it. These people will shrivel up and die before they will work half as hard as that for double the money. They are all addicted to something, both legal and illegal, softened up on cheeseburgers and pizza, every one of them has an "ailment" or a "condition" for some reason or another, some crutch to lean on or benefit from, addictions count people! That's a disease! Wheelchair because you're a fat slob? Sure! Here's one with a motor and a trailer for chicken wings. Just keep em fat, high, calm, and happy. What needs to be realized is that these people are so hard on the tit, they cannot get off of it. They rely on it, they depend on it. They will die if left to their own devices or if they're required to fend for themselves. Many already turn to crime far before the thought of getting a job crosses their mind, so if you make it even harder for them than it already is, is that supposed to be a boot in the ass? It's too hard already, let's make it harder for them and now they'll work. Doesn't sound right to me, I don't think that will work.

I'm not saying that I disagree with everything you have to say, but your first two sentences I do disagree with. This country, as of this point in time right now, absolutely needs illegal immigrant workers to maintain the current economy the way it is. If you take cheap labor away, someone else is going to have to pay. A good portion of us on here are the "we" that end up footing the bill for many of these things. If there is a way to keep these people out of this country and not let them sponge off of our system without sending the economy into turmoil that's great. As of right now though, this country does need and does rely on these people.

[ironchop]

While I despise the idea of the Marxist version of redistribution of capital because its nothing more than a re-badged welfare state, I do not subscribe to the totally Free Market = Good ideology either.

Redsox, I make it look like I paint the rich with a broad brush and I dont mean to come off that way. I just have trouble conveying what Im thinking with words.

For example, Soros made billions by intentionally crashing the British Pound. The eldest JP Morgan made piles by redeeming his US currency for gold to the point of nearly emptying the Gold reserves which backed all US currency at that time in US history. Then he used his holdings to force the Gov to buy back enough gold to back its issued currency to prevent a currency collapse at twice the previous price. There is nothing here to admire, respect, or aspire to and I posit that these two are grand examples of the failures of a Free Market and an indicator that some humans cannot be trusted with the right to do as they please.

[Billy Golightly]

Hey FABS.....so disappointed in this piece ! You want to know who i rely on......five finger Mary ! She goes fast or slow or goes tight and she`s always ready when i need her !! I`ve watched what this problem has done to the great state of ca. for over 30yrs and it makes me sick ! It takes billions out of the economy every year in ways you don`t even think of !........and then they come back and rob the job site or your house or your car ! Or you walk next to a building and it stinks like piss cause they live there ! They are a huge burden to this economy and we need to STOP THE DOUBLE STANDARD AND ENFORCE THE LAW !! Or FABS why don`t you open the doors to YOUR home and let them butt floss with your best towels ? Sink or swim life sucks and then you die ! Rather then waste my tax dollars on this the feds should have taken control of the Medical insurance industry of fraud and fleece the public...... and offer FREE Medical insurance with your payed taxes ! This Government is as crooked as Mexico's...... i`m waiting for them to DEVALUE the dollar like Mexico did the Peso years ago ! Lets see $1,500.00 for that cheese burger......i can`t count that high !

I'm not sure how may more times I can read over of your posts while going wtf and not permaban you. ..

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

[redsox]

First off, i find it interesting that a thread on immigration has almost instantly become a thread on the economy. Its scary to me how much the two are linked. Fabs, I agree that we are using the illegals as a crutch, and, to a very REAL extent, we need them now. If they were all gone tomorrow it would be very bad for the economy. But that is not going to happen. This problem took generations to be created and i feel like it will take generations to resolve. If it can ever be resolved. I agree that we lack a capable lower-middle-class workforce. But why? Do we blame the 400 pound, Walmart quad riding, soda guzzling, sloth thats collecting every benefit Uncle Barry has to offer? They disgust me, but i don't blame them. Why, why, why would they go out into the orange groves and pick oranges in the heat for $7 an hour when they can earn that same standard of living by staying home? Principle?? Good luck with that. They'd be foolish not to take the handout. So, who gets the blame? Do we blame farmer brown and the rest of the orange growers? They're trying to make a living. Doing whats best for their families. If fatso won't work because the Government is paying him for nothing, Farmer brown will hire Jose. Besides, Uncle barry raised minimum wage to $12 and hour so Farmer brown can't afford to hire Fatty, even if fatty would show up to work. But Jose will work, and work cheap. So it keeps the juice flowing and farmer Brown happy. They earn, and pay taxes, and the trough gets filled for fatty to plunder. Round and round we go. So, do we blame Jose? Hell no. Jose is doing whats best for his family. He left a third world s-hole to come here. The land of opportunity. He has health care and his kids can go to school and become doctors and lawyers. thanks to Uncle Barry. I'd do it too, for my family. What is jose supposed to do? sit home in some jungle hovel and suffer on principle? Condemn his children and his children's children to lives as bad as his? Because he should? Good luck with that. It goes against basic human drives. So, we can't blame fatty, and we can't blame farmer brown, and we can't blame Jose. Who is left to blame?????? But blame for what? If Jose is happy, and Farmer Brown is happy, and Fatty is happy, then why stop any of it? Because it cannot sustain itself, and people like Ironchop get squeezed out. Relegated to one of the three categories, like it or not. With no chance to move upward. That is why The United States is doomed. Jose will vote for Uncle Barry, Fatty will vote for Uncle Barry, and Farmer Brown will vote for Uncle Barry. AND BARRY WILL HAVE POWER. And there just aren't enough Ironchops or Redsox to stop it. The scales are already tipped. Its a numbers game, and the working middle class American has lost.

[fabiodriven]

Glamy you're out of line. I don't understand what you find so appalling about my post, but all it is is the truth. All I said is if you take cheap workers away who is going to replace them? Surely you must have an answer for that question, no? I didn't say to welcome illegals with open arms or to give them anything and I have no idea why you're tying me to such statements. Who is your nominee to do all the shite jobs they're doing for next to no money? I'm all ears!