250r crank oring placement

[3wheelrider]

Ive seen talk on a few threads about installing an oring to stop possible leak but I am unclear where it
goes exactly. Anyone got a pic or diagram to make it clear to me where it goes? Not sure if I
have a leak there but-how would you know if there IS anyway? I would like to do it just in case....

[3wheelrider]

sorry for the staggered sentences-not sure why it comes out that way?!-
(Using Iphone to post....)

[barnett468]

Hello


I don't understand your post, too cryptic

Do you want to install an oring on the crank inside or outside the crank area that wasn't put there by Honda to try and prevent the crank seals from leaking? If this is the case I personally would NOT do it.

Do you want to check crank seals for leaking? If so go to the recent post by Islander regarding "250r smokes too much" ALL the info you need to do this is there.

[3wheelrider]

Atc300r seems to know what Im talkin about.....-(altho Its for a watercooler R). I know it doesnt come with one there but I ve heard its a good idea to do so. Im just trying to eliminate the possibility of a leak there tho I have NO issues.
Anyway ,-so remove the collar place oring then reinstall collar? Is that how it is done on the WC R too?
Anyone got a diagram?Just want to be sure.....

[Dirtcrasher]

On the air cooled and liquid cooled 250r there is an O-ring that goes between the collar and crank bearing on the clutch side.You have to remove the clutch and pull the collar of put the O-ring on and reinstall the collar.Make sure you time the counter balancer when putting back together there are timing marks on everthing.Attachment 167589 Attachment 167590

Bingo!! Hopefully it'd not discontinued.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Did Honda quit with this O-ring shortly after the water pumpers went into full swing?? Neither of my engines had an O-ring there, nor did they have a groove on the collar for an o-ring....


This is very interesting to me

[KASEY]

i have cracked several 250r motors and NEVER seen an oring... so don't put something where it does not belong,,, asking for trouble if you put an oring where it shouldn't be....

[barnett468]

Atc300r seems to know what Im talkin about.....-(altho Its for a watercooler R). I know it doesnt come with one there but I ve heard its a good idea to do so. Im just trying to eliminate the possibility of a leak there tho I have NO issues.
Anyway ,-so remove the collar place oring then reinstall collar? Is that how it is done on the WC R too?
Anyone got a diagram?Just want to be sure.....

Hello Mr. 3wheelrider


From ATC300R - "My 85 was built in 12/84."

ATC300R, was it built prior to the VIN posted below?

Ride Red, was your built before or after the VIN listed below?

Was it built prior to or after ATC300R's bike?

xxxxx

ATC300r seems to know what Im talkin about.....-(altho Its for a watercooler R).

I personally don’t see how being sarcastic and condescending towards someone that you don’t know and who is simply taking time out of their life to help you, is going to get you the answers to your questions. Perhaps ATC300R is a cryptic code cracker and could crack the Enigma code if he wanted to, all I know is that I am not. This being said I am going to continue to help you at least this far any way.

Even though you may not want, need or understand the information I am supplying others will and may benefit from it as I frequently benefit from theirs.

xxxxx

I know it doesnt come with one there but I ve heard its a good idea to do so.

Honda designed these bikes without an o ring for some reason.

xxxxx

Im just trying to eliminate the possibility of a leak there tho I have NO issues.

This is understandable however since if it is done improperly it could possibly create a problem of some kind.

xxxxx

so remove the collar place oring then reinstall collar?

ONLY if you have a crank that looks like ATC300R’s in the photo and you have an o ring groove on your collar already.

Xxxxx

Is that how it is done on the WC R too?

Only on ATC300R’s bike that we know of so far since it is NOT this way on Ride Red 250r’s bike.

xxxxx

Anyone got a diagram?Just want to be sure.....

In addition to ATC300R’s xlnt photos I posted two links to the OEM Honda fiche below which shows it.

xxxxx

The OEM parts fiche shows a different crank assy in 85 prior to VIN 2413878 than the cranks used after this VIN. When they specifically list a VIN along with a part number it means that the actually dimension and or connectors [wiring and switches] are not interchangeable with other similar parts listed for the same year.

Since the crank was changed sometime in 85 I suggest you look VERY closely at the crank bearing area in ATC300R’s photo. If yours has and steps or the splines are machined 100% up to the bearing area it won’t help you at all to install one. His crank is the same od all the way and he has a smooth [non machined] area of approximately 10mm wide where the seal rides. Without this “SMOOTH” area an o ring will not “seal” and air can leak past the splines.

Since ATC300R has an o ring and Ride Red does not in the same year bike this “suggests” that all 85’s prior to this vin had an o ring and o ring collar. If this is the case then the OEM parts fiche he has an error regarding the early 85 collar and o ring. If this is not the case, then Honda simply used left over 84 collars in some of the 85 models. The only way to determine this is to compare the 83-84 collar to any 85-86 non o ring collar and see if they are interchangeable.

To PROPERLY run an o ring on an o ring free 85-86, one would have to machine the id of the collar to the proper size to properly accept the o ring. This is EXACTLY the reason I said I personally wouldn’t do it. Perhaps ATC 250R might measure his for you but I suggest you use a less sarcastic tone with him then you did with me if you want the info.

The proper shape/size of the o ring grove should be a square cut recess with the outer edge chamfered slightly to prevent cutting the o ring during installation and an id of 21.5mm [o ring will expand approximately 1%-3% when installed on the crank shaft] and a depth of approximately 3.0mm.

crank 84 130000961000 85 13300ha2000 up to VIN2413878, 13300ha2010, 13300ha2020, 86 13300ha2670

bearing 84-86 28x68x18

collar 84 13617961000 85-86 13617ha2000

o ring 84 91307-425-003 size 21.5mm X 3.2mm
xxxxx

84 o ring fiche 91307-425-003 size 21.5mm X 3.2mm

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-atc250r-1...2_91307425003/

xxxxx

84 crank assy fiche

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-atc250r-1...7.html#results

xxxxx

Bingo!! Hopefully it'd not discontinued.

They ARE discontinued but are available at the cmsnl.com site I listed. It is a std o ring size and is therefore readily available at o ring supply stores as well. Just get the right “material”.

[barnett468]

Hello


The collar is hardened and therefore may be difficult to machine.

Apply 2 stroke oil or Bel Ray grease to collar and o ring in and out for installation.

[bkm]

http://www.trx250r.net/forum/engine-...ir-leak-2.html

[Mosh]

http://www.trx250r.net/forum/engine-...ir-leak-2.html

Whole lot of misinformed stuff in that thread. There is NO Oring in a waterpumper under the seal collar. That guy on the other forum has a leak because his crank bearings are shot on the stator side. he should be splitting the cases and fixing it right vs. putting a bandaid on the thing.

One of the guys offering advice was asking some really simple questions on here and other forums just a few short years ago. Things that even a novice builder should have known. Probably more of a business man picking up tips from his hands on guys than he is a builder.

The service manual has the best advice and no service manual or engine seal kit says anything about putting a oring on the crank collar for a watercooled 250R.

[bkm]

Whole lot of misinformed stuff in that thread. There is NO Oring in a waterpumper under the seal collar. That guy on the other forum has a leak because his crank bearings are shot on the stator side. he should be splitting the cases and fixing it right vs. putting a bandaid on the thing.

One of the guys offering advice was asking some really simple questions on here and other forums just a few short years ago. Things that even a novice builder should have known. Probably more of a business man picking up tips from his hands on guys than he is a builder.

The service manual has the best advice and no service manual or engine seal kit says anything about putting a oring on the crank collar for a watercooled 250R.

The point of the link I posted was to answer the OP's question. Nothing more, nothing less. Personally I feel that if there was a problem with that seal leaking there, Honda would have placed an o-ring there. I agree that this seems to be more or a band aid for worn out components.

[Mosh]

I wasn't trying to call you out on the link or anything, just happened to have your name in it with the quote.

[Mosh]

http://www.servicehondapsn.com/fiche...85&fveh=131330

http://www.servicehondapsn.com/fiche...85&fveh=131330

http://www.servicehondapsn.com/fiche...85&fveh=131330

No oring

[3wheelrider]

Ok-I wasnt trying to ruffle feathers. By my comment I just meant that my question wasnt so cryptic that it wasnt comprehendable.-thats all. Yes- that thread with BDT is where I also saw it mentioned (1& sometimes 2 orings he says)-guess
not.-Anyway, after the advice/info here -I will leave it as is. Thanks to all !