In this article, I'll review and make comments on specific passages and sections of the document that can be found attached at the bottom. You can also download it directly, here. It is a 7mb Adobe .pdf file.
On Pages 41-44 There is a very interesting exchange, where one of the ATV Task Force commission members, is questioning one of their researchers regarding how on ATVs, there typically are more riders per machine than other types of motorcycles. Which even though it isn't spelled out in plain english in the conversation, would definitely increase the "appearance" that the three-wheeled ATV is more dangerous, because in actuality one machine is getting significantly higher usage than other forms of motor sports and recreation, and therefore has more opportunities for there to be rider errors or accidents by people unfamiliar with the machine. Checkout this quick little quote:
I think, when I wrote my market update memo for
this briefing package, there were about -- I calculated •
about 4,25 million ATV drivers in ATV owning households. But,
in addition to that -- and also, based on information from
the exposure survey -- we know that there are lots of drivers
that drive ATVs that do not own ATVs. My recollection is that
about forty percent of the households that owned ATVs at the
time of our exposure survey, which was March and April of
this year, about forty percent of the households that owned
ATVs let drivers outside the household also use them.
this briefing package, there were about -- I calculated •
about 4,25 million ATV drivers in ATV owning households. But,
in addition to that -- and also, based on information from
the exposure survey -- we know that there are lots of drivers
that drive ATVs that do not own ATVs. My recollection is that
about forty percent of the households that owned ATVs at the
time of our exposure survey, which was March and April of
this year, about forty percent of the households that owned
ATVs let drivers outside the household also use them.
Page 50
MR. RODGERS: Two years ago, I think- it was on the
10 order of about forty percent were four wheelers, but I would
11 have to check to be sure of that. So, clearly, there is a
12 trend toward four-wheeled ATVs.
13 Now, how rauch further that is going to go, I am
14 not entirely sure, because I suspect that there is some hard
15 core of ATV riders that just like three-wheeled ATVs.' So, I
16 am not sure what the market would naturally tend to in the
17 future. It may decrease some raore, but it may not go too
18 much farther down. It is really unclear. Of course, I am
19 not privy to what the manufacturers are thinking of.
MR. RODGERS: Two years ago, I think- it was on the
10 order of about forty percent were four wheelers, but I would
11 have to check to be sure of that. So, clearly, there is a
12 trend toward four-wheeled ATVs.
13 Now, how rauch further that is going to go, I am
14 not entirely sure, because I suspect that there is some hard
15 core of ATV riders that just like three-wheeled ATVs.' So, I
16 am not sure what the market would naturally tend to in the
17 future. It may decrease some raore, but it may not go too
18 much farther down. It is really unclear. Of course, I am
19 not privy to what the manufacturers are thinking of.
. And we're making whatever parts we can't buy any longer. Now THATS hardcore!Starting on page 58 (And elsewhere in the document, too) we get a little dip into an idea that is perhaps people who ride three-wheeled ATVs are naturally risk takers and more likely to result in injuries or accidents than other people, and how that fact could also skew the injury statistics they have. And yet, the researcher refutes this theory. Pretty lamely, too.
COMMISSIONER DAWSON: I think" the only question
6 you put on that was that there was a.question where people
7 who tended to be risk takers were more likely to buy the
8 three wheeler than the four wheeler. .
9 MR. RODGERS: There is that possibility, but we
10 cannot separate -- I mean, it is true that someone who — it
11 is possible that someone who is a risk taker will buy a
12 three-wheeled ATV, but on the other hand, I might just
13 mention that given that up until a few years ago, only three
14 ' wheelers were on the market, my guess would be that the fact
15 that someone has a three wheeler is not probably because they
16 are an inherent risk taker'.
17 Now, given the presence of three and four wheelers,
18 there may be a greater tendency for risk takers to buy the
19 three wheelers, but given the fact- that up until a few years
20 ago, almost all ATVs were three wheelers, I do not think
21 that that is as big as it might be, say, for the engine
22 i variable, where engine size may very-easily facilitate risk
taking.
6 you put on that was that there was a.question where people
7 who tended to be risk takers were more likely to buy the
8 three wheeler than the four wheeler. .
9 MR. RODGERS: There is that possibility, but we
10 cannot separate -- I mean, it is true that someone who — it
11 is possible that someone who is a risk taker will buy a
12 three-wheeled ATV, but on the other hand, I might just
13 mention that given that up until a few years ago, only three
14 ' wheelers were on the market, my guess would be that the fact
15 that someone has a three wheeler is not probably because they
16 are an inherent risk taker'.
17 Now, given the presence of three and four wheelers,
18 there may be a greater tendency for risk takers to buy the
19 three wheelers, but given the fact- that up until a few years
20 ago, almost all ATVs were three wheelers, I do not think
21 that that is as big as it might be, say, for the engine
22 i variable, where engine size may very-easily facilitate risk
taking.
Next, I would like to discuss our review of-the
5 state and local testimony at "the six public hearings,. State
'6 and local officials support a view that operator mis-use or
7 ' poor judgment was the single most contributing" factor,
8 associated with ATV accidents, injuries and deaths.
9 Examples of mis-use or-poor judgment included riding double,
10 use of "alcohol, riding on paved roads, riding at night', risk
11 taking, riding on unfamiliar terrain and young children
12 riding on vehicles designed for adults.
13 In terms of remedies, the two recommendations
14 • which consistently were mentioned in the testimony. were
15 the need for protective equipment -- and helmets were
16 mentioned the most often -- and safety education and training.
17 The majority of the testimony supported mandatory safety
18 education and training through state legislation,-
5 state and local testimony at "the six public hearings,. State
'6 and local officials support a view that operator mis-use or
7 ' poor judgment was the single most contributing" factor,
8 associated with ATV accidents, injuries and deaths.
9 Examples of mis-use or-poor judgment included riding double,
10 use of "alcohol, riding on paved roads, riding at night', risk
11 taking, riding on unfamiliar terrain and young children
12 riding on vehicles designed for adults.
13 In terms of remedies, the two recommendations
14 • which consistently were mentioned in the testimony. were
15 the need for protective equipment -- and helmets were
16 mentioned the most often -- and safety education and training.
17 The majority of the testimony supported mandatory safety
18 education and training through state legislation,-
Pages 111-115 Are to me, perhaps the most interesting of the entire document. The Task force members discuss their testing procedure for determining the "danger" factor for the machines. Comments are made about how all the machines passed, and how they passed easily. If you read the text verbatim, its EASY to pinpoint the disappointment in they had in this fact. Its Astonishing.
COMMISSIONER DAWSON: In other words, the
9 discrepancies that were showing up in our testing that you
10 had demonstrated for us yesterday are not showing up to the
11 same degree?
12 MR. DEPPA: In other words, they all pass and they
13 all pass very easily. Now, I would not dispute that they
14 might, come in as a first offer and show us something that
15 passed everything, but I would prefer to see the worst
16 machines sort of near the bottom of the list in terms of the
17 results. I do not think the test really discriminates that
18 broadly between the vehicles.
9 discrepancies that were showing up in our testing that you
10 had demonstrated for us yesterday are not showing up to the
11 same degree?
12 MR. DEPPA: In other words, they all pass and they
13 all pass very easily. Now, I would not dispute that they
14 might, come in as a first offer and show us something that
15 passed everything, but I would prefer to see the worst
16 machines sort of near the bottom of the list in terms of the
17 results. I do not think the test really discriminates that
18 broadly between the vehicles.
I believe, from a preliminary look at the values,
which resulted from our examination of our test vehicles,
that either the procedures or the pass/fail criteria will not
discriminate between what we believe to be less than
desirable and better handling vehicles. So, I think we are
dissatisfied at the current status of the development of that
test program.
which resulted from our examination of our test vehicles,
that either the procedures or the pass/fail criteria will not
discriminate between what we believe to be less than
desirable and better handling vehicles. So, I think we are
dissatisfied at the current status of the development of that
test program.
Page 121-135 There is interesting discussion about the potential mechanical remedies to make three-wheeled ATVs safer. Some of the items discussed are: Seat Belts(Wtf?), roll cages, differentials, and different designs in tires. Not anything real notable in these pages, except for the fact that if it wasn't blatantly obvious already that the majority of the people on this board were a bunch of morons that did not understand how anything worked, you sure get confirmation of it.
Page 127 is interesting, and again in my opinion showcases the blatant bias against the off-road industry as a whole, including the aftermarket. The one researcher discusses changes to tire treads, and tire standards to facilitate safer vehicles, and what they gained by a conversation with Tom Cepek (Dick Cepek tires, probably) He discusses how the aftermarket more or less designs tires by "style" with very little or no technical reasoning behind them. Refers to tire designers as "stylists."
They have their people who
I would characterize, being an engineer,.I would characterize
them more as stylists than as analysts, to work on new stud
design, new tread designs and when a prototype is developed,
they give it a trial marketing, see how it responds..
I would characterize, being an engineer,.I would characterize
them more as stylists than as analysts, to work on new stud
design, new tread designs and when a prototype is developed,
they give it a trial marketing, see how it responds..
MR. MARCHICA:' Clearly, we have seen — I am not
convinced that they are typical, but we have seen children
under 12 operate ATVs. I received a letter from the former
editor of ATV News, which we have shared with the Commission,
where he was adamantly opposed to that recommendation because
his three children safely ride ATVs.
I think if I was an endurance motorcycle champion,
my kids would know how to ride a motorcycle and an ATV, also,
so I am not convinced that his children are typical and I am
not convinced that he is a typical adult.
But, yes, there are -- I know he is not a typical
adult.
(Laughter)
...
The point of the matter is we realize that there
are going to be some children who are equipped to operate an
ATV that are under the age of 12, but the problem that we have
is we do not think that a typical child can handle it. Plus,
we are not convinced that it is a good statement to be making
to have machines available to children under 12 when they
just do not have the proper cognitive abilities to perceive a
problem
convinced that they are typical, but we have seen children
under 12 operate ATVs. I received a letter from the former
editor of ATV News, which we have shared with the Commission,
where he was adamantly opposed to that recommendation because
his three children safely ride ATVs.
I think if I was an endurance motorcycle champion,
my kids would know how to ride a motorcycle and an ATV, also,
so I am not convinced that his children are typical and I am
not convinced that he is a typical adult.
But, yes, there are -- I know he is not a typical
adult.
(Laughter)
...
The point of the matter is we realize that there
are going to be some children who are equipped to operate an
ATV that are under the age of 12, but the problem that we have
is we do not think that a typical child can handle it. Plus,
we are not convinced that it is a good statement to be making
to have machines available to children under 12 when they
just do not have the proper cognitive abilities to perceive a
problem
COMMISSIONER DAWSON: Was an argument advanced
that if you make -- if you eliminate 'the youth sized ATVs
from the market, then-you were simply going to create a
situation where the younger children are automatically going
to go to the adult-sized ATVs, which we know is a problem?
that if you make -- if you eliminate 'the youth sized ATVs
from the market, then-you were simply going to create a
situation where the younger children are automatically going
to go to the adult-sized ATVs, which we know is a problem?
COMMISSIONER DAWSON: I understand that and without
indicating what my eventual decision is going to be on
this,, but just for the sake of argument, what do you say,
then, to those atypical children under the age of 16 or even
under the age of 12 who have learned to ride ATVs safely
many of whom compete or who find this their major sport?
What do we say?
MR. MARCHICA: The same thing I say to my five year-
old who beats the heck out of eight-year-old children in
certain sports: He'll have to wait. That is all there is
to it. We all have situations where your 95 percentile
height and weight child who happens to have very good motor
skill development has to be held back a little bit, and that
is just the way it is. It is really philosophy now, that
you are getting into, and that is the problem.
indicating what my eventual decision is going to be on
this,, but just for the sake of argument, what do you say,
then, to those atypical children under the age of 16 or even
under the age of 12 who have learned to ride ATVs safely
many of whom compete or who find this their major sport?
What do we say?
MR. MARCHICA: The same thing I say to my five year-
old who beats the heck out of eight-year-old children in
certain sports: He'll have to wait. That is all there is
to it. We all have situations where your 95 percentile
height and weight child who happens to have very good motor
skill development has to be held back a little bit, and that
is just the way it is. It is really philosophy now, that
you are getting into, and that is the problem.
So they'll just penalize the ones that ARE capable, that ARE good enough, that ARE smart enough to handle the machines properly, just because there are those that cant. That is just great. REALLY great. /sarcasm.
Pages 162-164 Is a great section, where Comissioner Dawson ponders about the scale of the government involvement, and directs Mr. Machia A great question regarding the testing and standards, and the transparency of that testing to the public by asking this question:
Haye you ever looked at whether or not there is
any precedent for this in terms of federal activity, other
agencies? Have they done this type of an analysis and made
it available to the public?
any precedent for this in terms of federal activity, other
agencies? Have they done this type of an analysis and made
it available to the public?
MR. MARCHICA: I guess off the top of my head, the
only thing that.I can think.of are the energy labeling
standards, where if you were to buy a water heater or a
refrigerator or something like that — I mean, there is a
federal requirement there.
only thing that.I can think.of are the energy labeling
standards, where if you were to buy a water heater or a
refrigerator or something like that — I mean, there is a
federal requirement there.
Page 177 States: "Of course, as a philosophical matter, as we were
saying before, we may feel that the Commission has more right
to dictate to children."
Page 183 Talks about how a particular memo bucking the general consensus of the CPSC staff by a Mr. Schemltzer was not included in a public request for a briefing package. He suggests that the general CPSC staff was incorrect and believes that they over-emphasized the users responsibility, and under-emphasized the manufactures responsibility. About a 15 page rant of how dangerous ATVs are, how bad the manufactures are for not taking responsibility, failing to adhere to standards, blah blah blah blah.
Has anyone ever read "The Fountainhead" by Ayn Rand? When I read this section of the document, This Schemlzter guy's spill, I felt like I was getting a diatribe from Ellsworth Toohey. Like almost verbatim things that Ellsworth Toohey would say. Its too early to say, but if I had to point my finger on one person that probably had the most push to make things end up the way they did, I'd point my finger at this guy. Read it yourself, form you own opinions of the man.
After having read, and seen all that, whats your feelings? Do you feel bamboozled, like the whole thing was a sham? Were they doing the right thing? Is it too little of information to tell? Let us know your feelings below in the comment box.
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